<\/p>\n
You can also listen to this podcast on iono.fm here.<\/p>\n
JEREMY MAGGS: For years, the National Lotteries Commission became synonymous not simply with funding good causes but also with allegations of corruption, fraudulent grants and money intended for communities ending up in the wrong hands. But the organisation says it\u2019s now moved from the crisis and is into a new phase of stabilisation and stronger governance, as well as accountability.<\/p>\n
The man charged with helping drive that transition is Tembinkosi Bonakele, who\u2019s the newly appointed chair of the National Lotteries Commission (NLC), former commissioner of South Africa\u2019s Competition Commission.<\/p>\n
Tembinkosi, welcome to you. So let me ask you, bluntly, given the history, why should South Africans trust the commission with their money again?<\/p>\n
TEMBINKOSI BONAKELE: Two things have happened at the National Lotteries Commission. The first is we\u2019ve had actually a wholesale change in the leadership of the institution, and I was called in myself to be a member of the board, which was led by Professor Barney Pityana. Really, a person of high integrity, with a track record of leadership and public service.<\/p>\n
So Lionel October, the former Director-General of the dtic (Department of Trade, Industry and Competition) is also there, the CFO of the dtic (Irene Ramafola) is there, and really competent professionals. We have independent members whose track record is unquestionable, that of high integrity. So that is the first thing.<\/p>\n
Read:
Bonakele appointed chair of lottery commission board
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SA lottery Olympic scammers must pay back the money
Appointment of National Lotteries Commission chair inches forward
Pityana resigns as board chair of National Lotteries Commission<\/p>\n
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The second one is a real restructuring of the institution and changing its culture. You will agree with me that that\u2019s not easy. So we\u2019ve set up systems to ensure that we are able to pick up problems before they arise. But most importantly, we have brought in new people in management and staff, and we\u2019ve really drilled it into them that this is an organisation of service.<\/p>\n
This is an organisation that serves vulnerable, needy, members of the community and if you are there for anything other than that, then you should leave.<\/p>\n
So that message, I think, is getting in. We\u2019re seeing that if you look at when the corruption was taking place, you can almost draw a line, that once we started doing these things, we\u2019ve never had any new corruption allegations, and hopefully we won\u2019t hear any of those.<\/p>\n
JEREMY MAGGS: Well, better people, you say, you\u2019ve implemented new systems and structures. You say the institution has been stabilised, yet the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) is still uncovering unlawful grants and is still recovering money. I just wonder, as you give me these assurances, whether declaring the stabilisation phase complete isn\u2019t a little premature.<\/p>\n
TEMBINKOSI BONAKELE: No, no, it isn\u2019t. You must understand that the SIU investigations are looking at historic matters and it\u2019s very, very important that they must do that, recover the funds and hold people accountable.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s very important in this country that people who are involved in malfeasance and corruption are actually held accountable.<\/p>\n
Firstly, we are able to find them, and secondly, they are able to be investigated successfully and that they must be held accountable through the court systems.<\/p>\n
So that work we fully support and we work with the SIU on it, but it is all historical conduct. None of those cases involve the period that I\u2019m talking about, the period of consolidation.<\/p>\n
Read:
Ramaphosa extends SIU probe into lottery corruption
Ramaphosa strident on lottery probe<\/p>\n
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JEREMY MAGGS: The systems, you\u2019ll agree with me, are only as good as the people operating them. Are there still unresolved disciplinary or criminal matters that you are dealing with right now under your chairmanship?<\/p>\n
TEMBINKOSI BONAKELE: We are cleaning up. As I say, the SIU is looking at everything. We are finding out people who are involved in wrongdoing, both inside and outside the NLC. I\u2019m very happy that I think we\u2019ve gone through most of the \u2013 of this now.<\/p>\n
I can never guarantee, Jeremy, that we wouldn\u2019t have missed a person who might still be lurking around the institution who was involved. But I think we\u2019ve done the bulk of it, and I\u2019m quite confident that if they are there, they are really a tiny minority or individual bad apples.<\/p>\n
JEREMY MAGGS: I\u2019m glad you mentioned the importance of recovering stolen or misused money. That is critical. But you\u2019d also agree with me. That\u2019s only half the job. I\u2019ve got to wonder how much of the money lost through past corruption, the NLC realistically expects to ever get back? Or do you think it\u2019s lost forever?<\/p>\n
TEMBINKOSI BONAKELE: The SIU has been remarkably successful actually in these recoveries, obviously aided by their law, which really enables them to do their work. So I have no doubt that where we can show that monies were taken, the assets are still there, and we are able to attach them. It\u2019s very rare that we would go after a person and we come back with nothing.<\/p>\n
So I have confidence in the work that the SIU is doing. What we need, Jeremy, is once the SIU has done that work, the NPA (National Prosecuting Authority) must prosecute people. We must see people spending time in jail, and that\u2019s where we\u2019ve been lacking, if I may say. We have not seen convictions, and we are wanting to work with the NPA to ensure that that does happen.<\/p>\n
Read:
Ex-lottery officials ordered to repay R6m for ghost sports complex
Ex lottery board member to pay back R21m in stolen grant funds
NPA missing in action on lottery corruption<\/p>\n
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JEREMY MAGGS: Another important issue is the organisations themselves that should have received the funding in the first place. When stolen money is recovered, is that going to find its way back at any point to the intended beneficiaries?<\/p>\n
TEMBINKOSI BONAKELE: Yeah, we\u2019ve had a process where we are looking at projects. There are projects that were never implemented or in some instances where they were never completed and the communities were left out to dry.<\/p>\n
So we are working with communities in a restoration of sorts. Obviously, there are a lot of projects. We might miss some, but I think we are engaged in that process, and hopefully we will cover everybody who should have received any benefit from us.<\/p>\n
JEREMY MAGGS: Just a final question. Obviously, there\u2019s a new National Lottery operator, critical that the board ensures the NLC remains a tough, independent regulator. You cannot afford to become too close to the industry it oversees. Can you guarantee me that that\u2019s going to happen?<\/p>\n
TEMBINKOSI BONAKELE: Yes, yes. We are operating at completely arm\u2019s length with the operator. As you rightly point out, we are the regulator and this is not dissimilar to the work that I did at the Competition Commission. You cannot be seen to be captured by the very entity that you are supposed to regulate.<\/p>\n
Read:
SA lottery Olympic scammers must pay back the money
National Lottery whistleblowers denied financial compensation
Special Tribunal freezes luxury home of lottery \u2018kingpin\u2019
Former NLC executive loses bid for access to his R1.7m pension<\/p>\n
JEREMY MAGGS: Thank you very much indeed. That is Tembinkosi Bonakele, who is the newly appointed chair of the National Lotteries Commission.<\/p>\n
#South #Africans #trust #Lottery #Commission<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
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